| Home - Latest News | Introduction | Bayside Messages | Directives from Heaven | Testimonies | Veronica Lueken | Miraculous Photos | Videos |

Belief and obedience: the critical difference


"Pastors, you shall be called and shall you stand before, in judgment, the Eternal Father and say that your teaching has been pure in His sight? Better that you fear your God than man! Obedience? Obedience is commanded by the Eternal Father for good, not for evil!"  - Our Lady of the Roses, May 26, 1976

Dietrich von Hildebrand, called by Pope Pius XII "the 20th Century Doctor of the Church,” was one of the world's most eminent Christian philosophers. No other Catholic writer has so thoroughly echoed the message of Our Lady of the Roses than Dietrich von Hildebrand. The following is an excerpt from
his book entitled The Charitable Anathema.

What should be one’s inner attitude toward practical decisions of the Pope, decisions that seem ill-advised or dangerous in their consequences or even decisions that seem to compromise with the spirit of secularism?

Such questions increasingly preoccupy Catholics striving to defend the true doctrine of the Church against the onslaught of today’s innumerable heresies. In order to answer them, in order to understand the nature of the authority of the Church, we must, from the beginning, clearly distinguish between theoretical and practical authority.

Theoretical authority is a guarantee of the truth of a statement. In the natural, human realm we find only relative theoretical authorities. We accept the truth of a generally admitted scientific discovery–the existence of cosmic rays, for instance–although we ourselves are not able to verify it and still less capable of grasping it as we grasp an evident fact. What is learned in a school or university, and is not intelligible in itself (as is, for instance, the fact that two plus two is four) is learned only through acceptance of the teacher’s theoretical authority. But, obviously, this authority is only a relative one: many scientific “truths” once universally accepted have subsequently been discredited. It would be unreasonable not to accept what such a theoretical authority teaches–it would even be foolish–but we know, nevertheless, that this authority is not infallible, and thus is relative.

There is but one absolute theoretical authority: the Church in matters of faith and morals. It is a basis of our Catholic faith that Christ has entrusted His divine revelation to the Holy Church and that the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is infallible in matters of faith and morals–that she is an absolute theoretical authority in these matters.

It is because of this absoluteness that we are obliged–even morally obliged–to accept the Church’s word as true, to believe in it; whereas to accept the word of human, natural–relative–theoretical authority is never obligatory. Not to accept it may be unreasonable, but it is not morally evil. And obviously belief in the teachings of the Church has the character of faith–that is, an unconditional, solemn clinging to her teaching; whereas all belief in natural theoretical authorities is a mere natural conviction and differs radically from an act of religious faith.

Practical authority, on the other hand, appeals not to belief–to the acceptance of a truth–but to obedience. We are obliged to obey an authentic practical authority and to submit to its commandments. Whereas no natural theoretical authority is obligatory, there are true and binding practical authorities in the natural realm. Such is the authority of the parents over the child; such is the authority of the state. The Church is a practical authority of a higher order, because here the partial representation of God has a sacred character. It is a sacred authority and, in all matters which belong to her realm and competence, her commandments and administrative measures have a solemn and morally binding character.

Thus we can see that the theoretical authority of the Church appeals to our belief, while the practical authority of the Church appeals to our obedience. Clearly, then, the infallibility of the Church applies only to the Church as a theoretical authority.

Now, obviously, the essence of infallibility implies that there are never any contradictions between a formerly defined dogma an a new authoritative declaration de fide. At the moment such a contradiction comes to pass, the infallibility of the Church would explode, would have been proved a mere illusion on our part. Other possibilities do not exist. New dogmas may differentiate and explain former dogmas, they may complement them, they may refer to something which has never been defined before but was implicit in the faith or its logical consequences, or in any case does not contradict a former dogma. But no dogma, once authoritatively taught, can ever be authoritatively denied. For instance, the rejection of Luther’s sola fides theory could never be superseded by an affirmation of Luther’s theory. The consequence would be a collapse of the Church’s infallibility.

In what concerns the practical authority of the Church, her positive commandments, the question of infallibility simply does not apply. A positive commandment, an administrative measure, or any prescription cannot be true or false but only valid or invalid, good or evil, useful or useless. Truth is never the theme in the positive commandments or laws of any practical authority. If in a particular state the voting age is reduced from 21 to 18, we may find the measure wise or unwise, felicitous or disastrous, but it makes no sense to call it true or false. This applies also to the practical authority of the Church. When a pope introduces changes in canon law, or when he splits one diocese into two, or permits children to receive Communion at an early age, or changes laws of fasting, it may be felicitous or unfortunate, it may be more adequate than a former law or less adequate–but questions of infallibility and of truth are irrelevant.

The history of the Catholic Church offers innumerable examples of changes made according to the decisions of the practical authority of the Church; often, but not always, the authentic spirit of the Church–that is, the spirit of Christ–motivates her to revoke a former prescription and to introduce an opposite one. In this case we are bound to obey the prescription or commandment; we should accept it with the respect due it–but we are not obliged to find it felicitous. We can regret it and pray that it may be again revoked....

In the case of the theoretical authority, the important question is whether a teaching refers to matters of faith and morals and does not contradict the deposit of Catholic faith. Here infallibility is in question when a teaching is pronounced ex cathedra or de fide. A specific case may help to illuminate the matter.

The Second Vatican Council solemnly declared in its Constitution on the Church that all the teachings of the Council are in full continuity with the teachings of former councils. Moreover, let us not forget that the canons of the Council of Trent and of Vatican Council I are de fide, whereas none of the decrees of Vatican II is de fide; the Second Vatican Council was pastoral in nature. Cardinal Felici rightly stated that the Credo solemnly proclaimed by Pope Paul VI at the end of the Year of Faith is from a dogmatic point of view much more important than the entire Second Vatican Council. Thus, those who want to interpret certain passages in the documents of Vatican II as if they implicitly contradicted definitions of Vatican I or the Council of Trent should realize that even if their interpretations were right, the canons of the former councils would overrule these allegedly contradictory passages of Vatican II, because the former are de fide, the latter not. (It must be stressed that any such “conflict” would be, of course, apparent and not real.)

Our belief in the teachings of the Church de fide must be an absolute and unconditional one, but we should not imagine that our fidelity to the Church’s theoretical authority is satisfied merely by acceptance of ex cathedra pronouncements. We also must adhere wholeheartedly to teachings of the Church in matters of morality, even if they are not defined ex cathedra. The teaching of the encyclical Humanae Vitae, for example, is binding because its content has always been part of the teachings of the Church; in it we are confronted with the theoretical authority of the Church embodied in the tradition of the ordinary magisterium. It is not a mere practical commandment of the Church, like the commandment to go to church on Sunday. It is a statement about a moral fact; that is, it states a truth: that birth control is sinful. It is forbidden not because of the Pope’s policy, but because the theoretical authority of the Church declares its sinfulness. Here, as in all cases of the teaching of the theoretical authority, the old maxim applies: Roma locuta: causa finita.

The situation is different when positive commandments of the Church, practical decisions, are at stake. Here we are not faced with the infallible Church. While we must obey such decisions and submit to them in reverence and deep respect, we need not consider them felicitous or prudent. Here the maxim Roma locuta: cause finita does not apply. If we are convinced that any practical change or decision is objectively unfortunate, noxious, compromising, imprudent, or unjust, we are permitted to pray that it may be revoked, to write in a respectful manner about the topic, to direct petitions for a change of it to the Holy Father–to attempt, in a variety of ways, to influence a reversal of the decision.

"The Eternal City of Rome shall pass through a great conflagration. Discipline must be restored. Obedience, yes--but true obedience to their God and not the mores of man. Much evil is being condoned, disguised under the guise of obedience. Let us, My children, call this a false obedience, clouded by errors and satanism."   - Jesus, August 21, 1976


Our Lady of the Roses Bayside messages:
These messages came from Jesus, Mary, and the saints to Veronica Lueken at Bayside, NY, from 1968 to 1995.


"You will not destroy My Son's House, Church, by consorting with the enemies of My Son! You will not convert the enemy by lowering the standards. Your example must be one of a steadfast faith.
   "Change! What need is change when the foundation has stood through the test of time? It is a dissatisfied man, a greedy and lustful man who seeks change. Does he change to bring man to God? No! He changes to take man from God and give him to Lucifer!
   "Satan was present, he listened with careful ears at the great Council. He awaited every move, and he placed his agents among you! Recognize and reconstruct your path. You have been deluded. You are on the wrong road. Turn about now, or you will sow the seeds for your own destruction!
   "How many warnings will you receive before the hand of your Father will descend upon you? No date do I give unto all mankind, but only to few. All those who accept the grace given freely for the asking will not be caught unawares. They will prepare themselves. All mankind upon earth should prepare for his death.
   "We look upon a world where mankind goes about defaming himself and the Father, wallowing in all manners of lust and pleasure, abomination—even in the House of God! He lives as though he never will die. No human flesh will be eternal, but the soul is eternal and will live on forever." - Our Lady, August 14, 1974  

"Pastors, you shall be called and shall you stand before, in judgment, the Eternal Father and say that your teaching has been pure in His sight? Better that you fear your God than man! Obedience? Obedience is commanded by the Eternal Father for good, not for evil!"  - Our Lady, May 26, 1976

"You will not be led into false obedience, for in this way you will be led as sheep to the slaughter."  - Our Lady, September 7, 1971

"Obedience, My child, obedience--how sad that the true meaning has met with distortion. Satan has used the rule of obedience to bring about the destruction of souls. There is, My child, only one majesty Who commands your obedience. This is the Father--the Father, the most high God in Heaven, the Kingdom of light. You must not honor man before your God. You must not sell your soul to man! For you, therefore, are selling your soul to the devil."  - Our Lady, December 6, 1974

"We ask obedience, My child, to your elders but not when it is misleading. You must search out the sheep and the goats. We do not expect you to join the goats. Remember, My child, all will be judged with a firm hand."  - Our Lady, October 2, 1974

"The Eternal City of Rome shall pass through a great conflagration. Discipline must be restored. Obedience, yes--but true obedience to their God and not the mores of man. Much evil is being condoned, disguised under the guise of obedience. Let us, My children, call this a false obedience, clouded by errors and satanism."   - Jesus, August 21, 1976

"My pastors, you shall not give as your excuse for your false teachings, a rule of obedience! And who are you being obedient to but satan? Shall you stand before Me and say that your teaching has been pure in My sight? I say unto you, I shall spit you out as vipers into the flames!"  - Jesus, September 28, 1976

"Bishops, awaken from your slumber! I repeat, My children, My bishops, shall you be obedient to sin? Shall you unite and destroy your Faith? Shall you compromise your Faith with the ultimate destruction of souls?"  - Our Lady, December 24, 1975

"Obedience, My child, places many restrictions. You will understand that many pastors, many men of God, face restrictions. It may not be of their decision. However, a guide to clergy and the lay people, My child, is truth. You will not sacrifice in any way your soul for the things of your earthly world. Man has one master only, the God who created him and his universe. Man will answer to only his Master."  - Our Lady, September 7, 1973

"Many in My Son's Church have fallen away. Pray for your brothers and sisters, My children. Pray for your bishops, your priests, who are under great attack by reason of false obedience."  - Our Lady, December 7, 1977

"And God never changes. And neither must you change to please man. But you must change always to please God. And obedience: there is a false obedience, if you displease God, just to please man."  - Our Lady, June 18, 1982

"I have wandered throughout the world crying to My children, and My tears fall upon you, for as I have cried for obedience to your Eternal Father in Heaven and, also, to Our Pope, Our poor Vicar, who suffers much on the hands of the enemies of your God."  - Our Lady, March 18, 1983

"O My children, what more can I say to you? What more can the Eternal Father do to awaken you--you who are apathetic, not caring until you are struck by destruction; you who watch as the warnings go by, not caring until it enters your home; and you who go by like ducks in the waters, not caring or wondering or questioning why you proceed in that path; and you who, in your blindness; and you who, in your blindness of blind obedience, have given yourselves to destruction and destroying My Son's House in your obedience to man! No man shall be obedient to satan."  - Our Lady, November 20, 1976

"If you compromise by pleasing those who have set themselves to rule you, and if you compromise without the love of God and accepting the will of God, and replacing it for the will of man, in obedience that has been darkened by sin and false obedience-blind obedience-no! You shall not cast aside your God to please any man!"  - Our Lady, September 13, 1975

"Man has set himself into the web of satan by straying from the path given by the Father. Discipline, self-discipline and obedience to the rules of God are the only path."  - Our Lady, November 24, 1973

"My child, there is much confusion in the world. We ask obedience-yes, We ask, My child, obedience. But this story I must repeat to you. It is one of truth. Your obedience is to the Father in Heaven. Abraham, directed to give his son as sacrifice: it is the law of God, as written by Moses, that thou shalt not kill; but when the Father had asked this sacrifice, he, Abraham, listened unto God, and knew that the law of God first and above all is, 'Thou shalt honor the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, with thy whole mind, and with thy whole body.'"   - Our Lady, April 13, 1974

Directives from Heaven

D1 - The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass  PDF LogoPDF
D63 - The Third Secret 
D77 - Obedience 
D85 - Tradition 
- Ecumenism  
- Vatican II  
D161 - The Great Apostasy  PDF LogoPDF
D164 - Heresy
D193 - Turn Back: You are on the Wrong Road    PDF LogoPDF


Vatican II, part 1: Infiltration of the Church


Vatican II, part 2: Dark clouds forming before Vatican II

Vatican II, part 3: The satanic revolution gains momentum at the Council


Statistical decline of the Catholic Church since Vatican II


“Kneel before your God in the Eucharist”

Should women cover their heads in Church?

Latin, the universal language of the Catholic Church

The case for the Latin Mass

Pope John Paul II recommends praying the St. Michael Exorcism

Restore the main altar


Videos online:

Vatican II
Watch here...

World Monetary Crash
Watch here...

Deception of the Century
Watch here...

Third Secret Fabrication
Watch here...

The Miraculous Story of Bayside
Watch here...

A Pilgrimage to Our Lady of the Roses Shrine
Watch here...

Jacinta's Third Secret vision: She saw Pope Paul VI
Watch here...

Consecrate Russia
Watch here (Part 1)
(Part 2)


Email us:


| Home | Introduction | Bayside Messages | Directives from Heaven | Miracles & Cures | Veronica Lueken | Miraculous Photos | Videos |


April 09, 2018